Does anyone STILL hate SNAPE as much as I do.?

I am so sorry. I just finished the book for the second time at the request of my best friend who was totally sure ole Snivellus would redeem himself and be found out a hero in DH. Well I STILL don%26#039;t see it.





Yes Sev loved Lily...BIG DEAL! He was still a mass murderer. Sev honestly believed that pureblood crap, he was mean and seperatist even in high scool (even tho he was bullied by PUREBLOODS) He had been a death eater for YEARS. They didnt throw parties, people. They KILLED.





As for the LP thing, there was so much more he could have done if he really thought she was in so much danger from Vol. And even Dumbledore noted with the utmost contempt that Sev was willing to let an innocent child die so a woman who would NEVER be with him would live. That%26#039;s not heroic that selfish and pathetic.





He was so super jealous of James %26quot;taking%26quot; LP that he was more than happy to let JP die. His treatment of Harry stemmed from that hatred.





Finally, Sev worked for BOTH sides until the day he died. He himself said NOBODY is that good of an actor. He wasn%26#039;t completely loyal to neither Dum nor Vol. He saw benefits and his beliefs in both sides and so he stood up for those beliefs and defended them with actions, the good and the bad. Sev did very bad things, and he enjoyed doing those very bad things. That makes him a very bad person. End of story. Just because he had a few redeeming qualities doesnt change the harm that he has caused for many many years.





THIS MAY OFFEND SOME PEOPLE


I equate Severus%26#039; character to that of someone as bad as a slavemaster. He can love and adore his wife and children in splendor, and then go right outside to kill and abuse his forced help. This is a terrible person inside and out and does not deserve pity. Sev got his desserts for playing both sides because Vol made it clear that he needed no one and Sev knew what was coming to him.





Sorry about that, I just don%26#039;t see how people can make the fact that Sev cared about LP a reason to turn him into some sort of tragic hero and exonerate him of his crimes which more than deserved a death sentence.

Does anyone STILL hate SNAPE as much as I do.?
I never did hate him. I thought from the very start that he was SO much cooler than all those pathetic goodie two shoes.


Yup, he was evil. So what. He still rules.
Reply:Short answer: He is a bad man, but not truly evil.





I think he was %26quot;good%26quot; in the sense that he was on Dumbledore%26#039;s and Harry%26#039;s sides, against Voldemort. At the same time, however, he was a huge jerk.





Let%26#039;s not pull any punches here; Snape is not a nice man. He is petty and mean-spirited, filled with bitterness. He never could get over his hatred of Harry%26#039;s father, and it caused him to be unbelievably nasty and spiteful to harry throughout the series. He seems to delight in mentally tormenting Harry even as he tries to help him. This is because he still resents James Potter, both for the things he did and jealousy because he married Lily.





Of course you could also draw parallels to Harry here--Harry was also unable to let go of his hatred for Snape, and never really trusted or respected the man. In a way I think the two people%26#039;s mutual grudges, that neither could let go of, fed off each other. That was why in book 5 when Snape was teaching Harry Occlumency things went so terribly. Harry couldn%26#039;t get over his hatred of Snape and never really opened his mind to learning. Snape couldn%26#039;t get over his hatred of Harry and intentionally made the lessons as traumatic as possible.





However there is good in him, good which Lily brought out. It brought him redemption in the end. If Lily had not died he might have stayed a Death Eater forever, serving Voldemort until the end. But after Voldemort killed Lily, he really did change. I don%26#039;t think it was just that he hated Voldemort for killing Lily; he also felt remorse that he had become a part of it, and I think he realized the true evil of what Voldemort was doing.





So in the end Snape is a spiteful little antihero. There is a complexity in him. Not liking the guy is probably natural--as a person I definitely don%26#039;t like him. But as a character I think he%26#039;s complex and very interesting, and I like that he doesn%26#039;t fit neatly into either %26quot;good%26quot; or %26quot;evil.%26quot;
Reply:Yeah, he was no hero. He was a Death Eater who got revenge. But he chose to do a hard job, and he did it to the end.





Reminds me of Darth Vader...how we are supposed to think that Vader is all good at the end. But what does he do? He brings a super-tempting person in front of the Emperor, who surely he must hate after all these years, for tricking him into his dark path. (Annakin surely is not a guy who is going to accept responsibility for his choices, and after the events of Ep 3, there%26#039;s no one left around to blame) Then, when the emperor is distracted torturing the kid, Vader gets his revenge by toppling the guy. Maybe the fact that it was his child pushed him a little, but that doing something to help your own child hardly makes you a shining example of moral goodness.
Reply:I totally agree with you. Snape was only really looking out for himself, if you really think about it. Sure, he did what he had to do, but if you think about it, Dumbledore basically had to guilt him into keeping watch over Harry.





People who go %26quot;Poor Snape, he was such a great guy%26quot; have truly not read the books. They obviously fantasize about him too much.





My dad totally went with the fact that Snape was a good guy, and we had a serious debate over it. I%26#039;m a firm believer that Snape was a bad person, that saving Harry really didn%26#039;t redeem him because he was only doing it over Dumbledore giving him a guilt trip.
Reply:I think you have something there, young lady. I never looked at it that way, and I myself fell into the %26quot;Awwww, poor Snape%26quot; mentality. I think I may have to think again. Thanks for the insight.
Reply:Nah.


Actually I never really disliked this character.


I liked Snape, still like him and will like him
Reply:Merlin%26#039; Beard!


I believe that Severus%26#039; life changed when Lilly died. Then on, he fought the dark lord - the dark arts, the whole muggle, wizard born idea. He, I believe, is almost a replica of dumbldore. When their lives changed and they turned to the %26#039;good side%26#039;. We don%26#039;t know who or how many people he killed anyway, and as for his %26#039;nasty%26#039; character, I wouldn%26#039;t be great pals with the son of the man who pulled down my pants!!!


severus%26#039; dispute with James wasn%26#039;t sparked by jealous, as you put it, but by James%26#039; arrogance and nasty comments on the train. They started it. By bullying him that day by calling him, just like you, Snivellus!





He also (I realised you didn%26#039;t mention) attempted to save Lupin%26#039;s life and punished Jinny (and the gang when they attempted to steal the sword) by doing detention with Hagrid.


He didn%26#039;t harm any member of hogwarts or put them in harms way.


He was teaching potter (through his potions book) by allowing him to keep it even though he knew he had it and just when he was leaving hogwarts at the end of 6. telling potter not to use forgivable curses, use your mind etc.... to fight the dark lord.


This man has sacrificed so much and put his life on the path for good, and now to turn around and even doubt his goodness, is as you put it, offensive.
Reply:While I agree with you in principal, some of your arguments do not stand up to scrutiny. Eventhough he had sociopathic tendencies, there is no direct evidence he participated personally in the death of any person except Dumbledore. Granted, he is still guilty by association, but he acted more in information gathering than as lackey.





The need to play both sides is an extremely difficult thing to do. He did do what he could to minimize the punishments doled out at hogwarts but was limited in what he could do by this subterfuge. I do agree in the sense that his first concern was for Severus Snape.





Even his life long love was selfish in nature as expressed by yourself. I do feel that J. K. Rowling expressed in interviews that he was still a despicable person, brave yes, but noble, no (my paraphrasing, not her exact words). This being said, I do not understand how she justified the epilogue and Harry%26#039;s sentiments except that he was young and forgave Snape due to the fact he did love Lily and at Dumbledore%26#039;s assessment.





I enjoyed Snape%26#039;s character immensely, and prayed she would not alter his personality to fit in with all the %26#039;Snape is good%26#039; crowd. I think she dealt with him appropriately in that sense. I do feel, however, that he did prefer Dumbledores ways to Voldmorts. He had seen the error of his previous beliefs and did not share Voldemort%26#039;s sentiments in the end. However, for him to make a complete change was quite beyond his characters limits due to these ingrained prejudices.





I am with you, I don%26#039;t think he was redempted either, I just wanted to point out a few things to think about.
Reply:sure do
Reply:I don%26#039;t pity him but it helped to know that all that time he was trying to make up for the past by helping the cause against LV. I%26#039;m not sorry that he ended up dead but I felt greatful that he was sorry enough for what happened to Lily to work to protect Harry, even though he treated him roughly and unfairly.



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